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look, boehner has, right now, a few cards that he can play. he wants to quiet the noise on his side. you talk about the joint references. why is he always saying what he's saying publicly. that's just to make sure that people know that, look, this is still important for us. but he gets inside the room. you even eluded to that movement. >> you're laying out what you think republicans can give. what do you think the democrats, the moderates, the progress ifrs really want to see on the other side? do they want to see the rate change for the rich? above 250, 300, 400? do they want to say before you take a piece out of me, you've got to take a piece out of them. >> i think the 250 above is really important 679 i'll fell you why that is. it's because if you look at who got hurt the most in the downturn, it was the 98%, right? the very rich, the wealthiest in this country did pretty well. they did well even as the rest of the country has fallen often the cliff. so the idea that you're going to make it a little more progressive, even if later on you d
look, boehner has, right now, a few cards that he can play. he wants to quiet the noise on his side. you talk about the joint references. why is he always saying what he's saying publicly. that's just to make sure that people know that, look, this is still important for us. but he gets inside the room. you even eluded to that movement. >> you're laying out what you think republicans can give. what do you think the democrats, the moderates, the progress ifrs really want to see on the other...
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how far does the president have to go to give boehner something that helps boehner go to his caucus and say let's just do our deal. >> you want someone to be singing "i'll be home for christmas." >> there you go. >> first, it's nice to see you in d.c. >> it's a great pleasure. >> we have this little bubble of optimism in the conventional media the past few days. although they're talking, they're not saying much, there must be progress, but we still have a fundamental divide here. the president says rates have to go up. he doesn't want to trade the debt ceiling for anything. he thinks that should be separate. and boehner put out a proposal saying we'll raise invest knews but we're going to lower rates. won't specify, as you noted earlier. there seems to be in the staff level at least not much progress, any progress, being made. i have to believe the fundamental dynamic is still the same, that boehner is going to have a hard time convincing more than half of his caucus, even half of his caucus, to support something that really gives the president a lot in terms of revenue cuts and doesn't
how far does the president have to go to give boehner something that helps boehner go to his caucus and say let's just do our deal. >> you want someone to be singing "i'll be home for christmas." >> there you go. >> first, it's nice to see you in d.c. >> it's a great pleasure. >> we have this little bubble of optimism in the conventional media the past few days. although they're talking, they're not saying much, there must be progress, but we still have a...
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>> we have a statement from john boehner's office. they're saying that they have made a counter proposal now to the white house. let me read you the statement. they say, we sent the white house a counter offer that would achieve tax and entitlement reform to solve our looming debt crisis and create more american jobs. this from the speaker's office. they are also saying that their offer now today was in response to a new offer from the white house. we know that the ap is also reporting that at least partial offers have been exchanged between the two sides over the past two days. so, clearly, what we know here is that paper is changing hands and the deal making is actually happening right now. what we don't know is what the content of that deal is. and speaker's office telling me right now that they're not going to be able to provide any detail on what was in that counter offer, so, behind the scenes, the mystery continues here. >> so, again, we're not necessarily zeroing in on exactly where that revenue comes from, we don't know if it
>> we have a statement from john boehner's office. they're saying that they have made a counter proposal now to the white house. let me read you the statement. they say, we sent the white house a counter offer that would achieve tax and entitlement reform to solve our looming debt crisis and create more american jobs. this from the speaker's office. they are also saying that their offer now today was in response to a new offer from the white house. we know that the ap is also reporting...
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house speaker john boehner said his plan cuts $2.2 trillion over 10 years. think about $16 trillion. that's how much debt this country has and according to bill gross, the man who runs the world's biggest bond fund, the guy that decides to lend money to the united states and how much we have to pay to borrow, says we have to cut spending or raise taxes by 11% of gdp over next 10 years and according to gross that's $1.6 trillion a year. that is, let's just make this clear, $1.2 trillion a year more than the president proposes and $1.38 trillion a year more than john boehner has offered. yeah. peanuts. i recently spoke with erskine bowles, the bowles in simpson-bowles and even he agreed that bill gross is right. >> absolutely. he's 100% right. i don't know if 16's number but i would be happier at $5 trillion or $6 trillion because that's what we need to solve the problem long term. >> those are big numbers. bilg gross will be with us in a moment. i want to bring in john avalon right now. this is what i find incredible we are getting so focused on the deal and
house speaker john boehner said his plan cuts $2.2 trillion over 10 years. think about $16 trillion. that's how much debt this country has and according to bill gross, the man who runs the world's biggest bond fund, the guy that decides to lend money to the united states and how much we have to pay to borrow, says we have to cut spending or raise taxes by 11% of gdp over next 10 years and according to gross that's $1.6 trillion a year. that is, let's just make this clear, $1.2 trillion a year...
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a year ago, eric cantor was measuring the curtains in boehner's office, but i think now, boehner knows he's just got to get this done, suffer through, the republicans will take the hit if this doesn't happen and they don't need that kind of bad press. it will just make obama all the more powerful heading into his reinauguration. >> all right. both of you guys seem glass half-fullish on this. bottom line, ron first, deal or no deal? >> bottom line, i don't think the president wants to go over the cliff, because he'll be giving an inaugural address with the country in fiscal shambles. and the president still is the commander in chief, the leader of our country. and if he presides over this, a lot of mud is going to splash up on him too. i think we'll be able to get this deal done, but, again, the devil's in the details. >> tight on time, jason, deal or no deal? >> we're going to get a deal, right at the end of the year, everyone's happy, unemployment will keep coming, and we will not hit the fiscal cliff. >> all right, gentleman, thank you for your insight. we'll see if there'll be a dea
a year ago, eric cantor was measuring the curtains in boehner's office, but i think now, boehner knows he's just got to get this done, suffer through, the republicans will take the hit if this doesn't happen and they don't need that kind of bad press. it will just make obama all the more powerful heading into his reinauguration. >> all right. both of you guys seem glass half-fullish on this. bottom line, ron first, deal or no deal? >> bottom line, i don't think the president wants...
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boehner's office says that they want more details on spending cuts. so here's what senator bob corker had to say on the deal. >> i agree that we can get to a grand bargain but it has to be one, in my case, where you've actually made the decisions. i'm not going to do another process bill. i'm sorry. there's an old adage here in the senate, there's nothing to be learned from the second kick in the shin. >> and you can put that on a christmas card. so which sides benefits most from this you go first type of game? >> you know, it's a great question. i do think that we're going to come away with tax hikes for the rich. that's been one of hits key goals, huge issue in the campaign. i think that has to happen. i expect it to happen. that will be a good thing. what i'm hoping is that doesn't mean that republicans will harden around raising the debt ceiling a couple of months from now because that becomes then this continuing game of chicken and that's really what we don't want to see in terms of getting the economy back on track. >> that is the potential nex
boehner's office says that they want more details on spending cuts. so here's what senator bob corker had to say on the deal. >> i agree that we can get to a grand bargain but it has to be one, in my case, where you've actually made the decisions. i'm not going to do another process bill. i'm sorry. there's an old adage here in the senate, there's nothing to be learned from the second kick in the shin. >> and you can put that on a christmas card. so which sides benefits most from...
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you mentioned boehner speaking at the top of the hour. in the past few moments the obama 2012 campaign staff has tweeted the following. if your taxes go up, republicans will have made a conscious choice to let that happen. we have no way of knowing if this is somehow related to what the speaker may say in 20 minutes' time. might just be yet another echo of an existing talking point. that's going to be one more tea leaf to read in the next half hour. >>> when we come back, delta air lines buying a 49% stake in virgin atlantic today. we'll talk to the ceo about the deal and what it means for the airline's future after the break. again? it's embarrassing it's embarrassing! we can see you carl. we can totally see you. come on you're better than this...all that prowling around. yeah, you're the king of the jungle. have you thought about going vegan carl? hahaha!! you know folks who save hundreds of dollars by switching to geico sure are happy. how happy are they jimmy? happier than antelope with night-vision goggles. nice! get happy. get geico
you mentioned boehner speaking at the top of the hour. in the past few moments the obama 2012 campaign staff has tweeted the following. if your taxes go up, republicans will have made a conscious choice to let that happen. we have no way of knowing if this is somehow related to what the speaker may say in 20 minutes' time. might just be yet another echo of an existing talking point. that's going to be one more tea leaf to read in the next half hour. >>> when we come back, delta air...
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rick: speaker of the house john boehner and president obama meeting over the weekend, speaker boehner taking to the floor of the house just moments ago. take a listen. >> mr. speaker, last week republicans made a serious offer or to avert the fiscal cliff x most of it was based on testimony given last year by president clinton's former chief of staff, erskine bowles. and as mr. bowles himself said on sunday, we have to cut spending. well, he's right. washington has a spending problem. let's be honest, we're broke. call for a balanced approach. a lot of people know that the president and i met on sunday. it was a nice meeting, it was cordial, but we're still waiting for the white house to identify what spending cuts the president is willing to make as part of the balanced approach that he promised the american people. you know, where are the president's spending cuts? the longer the white house slow walks this process, the closer our economy gets to the fiscal cliff. here's what we do know. we know that the president wants more stimulus spending and an increase in the debt limit withou
rick: speaker of the house john boehner and president obama meeting over the weekend, speaker boehner taking to the floor of the house just moments ago. take a listen. >> mr. speaker, last week republicans made a serious offer or to avert the fiscal cliff x most of it was based on testimony given last year by president clinton's former chief of staff, erskine bowles. and as mr. bowles himself said on sunday, we have to cut spending. well, he's right. washington has a spending problem....
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>> you just played a bite from speaker boehner saying, look, show us a little leg here, democrats, on those -- on those spending cuts and this is what he's talking about. take a look at this. the white house says, they're willing to do $350 billion in health savings. and the republicans are almost double that, what that includes from the republican party is increasing, for example, the eligibility age from medicare. say instead of it being 65 it might go up to the age of 67 or changing the way we calculate then crease in social security benefits. these are things that the president has been willing to talk about in the past. the republicans want them to talk about it first, right now, before they sign on to any rate increase. so we're back in the situation of who gives first, which is why these talks are going to have to come down to the president and john boehner in a room with a closed door, okay, because that's the only way they're going to get to do it. >> we'll see who gives a little leg. gloria, thank you. >>> former president carter put solar panels on the white house when he w
>> you just played a bite from speaker boehner saying, look, show us a little leg here, democrats, on those -- on those spending cuts and this is what he's talking about. take a look at this. the white house says, they're willing to do $350 billion in health savings. and the republicans are almost double that, what that includes from the republican party is increasing, for example, the eligibility age from medicare. say instead of it being 65 it might go up to the age of 67 or changing...
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he's talking to john boehner now and we're all better off because of it. >> he's still going out and talking to the people with his message. my point is congress will deal with this fiscal mess one way or another. if they get it done, it will be a great accomplishment for everybody. we may get immigration reform since republicans seem to now want immigration reform. i'm not sure what else you can get from congress in this atmosphere. what i worry about obama in the second term is not arrogance and complacency, all that may be true. i wonder what you may get done with congress still in a state of gridlock. >> this is the biggest fear of republicans we cut a deal in the short term on fiscal cliff without any real spending reform or tax reform and won't have enough time or political will to get the real reforms that need to take place and republicans raise taxes and get no spending cuts. >> that's the biggest fear of democrats we don't deal with thi this. >> eugene, we were showing the tape of harry reid. we write, republicans must wise up. the biggest problem the republican party faces
he's talking to john boehner now and we're all better off because of it. >> he's still going out and talking to the people with his message. my point is congress will deal with this fiscal mess one way or another. if they get it done, it will be a great accomplishment for everybody. we may get immigration reform since republicans seem to now want immigration reform. i'm not sure what else you can get from congress in this atmosphere. what i worry about obama in the second term is not...
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so speaker boehner knows a caucus, a serious, mature sober leader. he knows what his principles are. he's a principled conservative, a mainstream businessman and knows what the issues are. the house should and is largely trusting him. >> and what do you think about that, hilary? should the democrats trust the president to close the deal behind closed doors? >> i think democrats mostly trust the president. i don't know what mary's talking about that the president has dragged his heels. he's been trying to get congress to deal with this issue for months and months. but having said that, neither of these guys i think have the full faith and credit of their caucuses to do anything and that's what is taking so long. no democrats are pressing on the president to be careful on what he cuts on entitlements and folks like me would like to make sure that the defense cuts, you know, are substantially a part of this package. republicans, you know, are making a big deal out of that top 2% tax rate and so they both, i think, have a good sense of how far they can g
so speaker boehner knows a caucus, a serious, mature sober leader. he knows what his principles are. he's a principled conservative, a mainstream businessman and knows what the issues are. the house should and is largely trusting him. >> and what do you think about that, hilary? should the democrats trust the president to close the deal behind closed doors? >> i think democrats mostly trust the president. i don't know what mary's talking about that the president has dragged his...